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Post by sbseed on Jun 30, 2015 11:40:00 GMT
i would like to request that someone, anyone, start working on a mod manager for keeping track of mods...
this would need to consist of several aspects:
(depending on hardcoding)
- script extender, work with current mod tools (expansion/centralization of modding tools)
- error logging for both the manager and mods (keeping track of scripts/coding and file override conflicts)
- keep track of all mods installed
- mod sorting (if necessary)
- auto conflict detection
- game crash/freeze/etc. detection
working with the mod manager would then allow greater freedom with creating mods:
(what should be able to be done using a mod manager)
- allow addition of new npc characters (unless hardcoded) instead of changing current npc's
- greater range of customization for players
- expand customization to all key bindings in the game (ie changing activation key from 'e')
- possibly expanding power-ups to allow proper flow ssj to ssj2 to ssj3 to ssj4, instead of normal to ssj4
- add animations and powers/moves/skills
- open/connect map locations to include all areas for missions and side missions.
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Post by The Mad Titan on Jun 30, 2015 12:03:47 GMT
working with the mod manager would then allow greater freedom with creating mods: (what should be able to be done using a mod manager) - allow addition of new npc characters (unless hardcoded) instead of changing current npc's - greater range of customization for players - expand customization to all key bindings in the game (ie changing activation key from 'e') - possibly expanding power-ups to allow proper flow ssj to ssj2 to ssj3 to ssj4, instead of normal to ssj4 - add animations and powers/moves/skills - open/connect map locations to include all areas for missions and side missions. having a mod manager is a great idea.but the thing is that we wouldnt get greater freedom just by having a mod manager. because in order to add those to a mod manager , we have to figure out how those work. making a mod manager wont be so hard ,but it wouldnt immidiately allow us access to these functions. this isnt skyrim. dimps hasnt given us a development kit. |
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Post by Rai on Jun 30, 2015 12:30:02 GMT
i would like to request that someone, anyone, start working on a mod manager for keeping track of mods... Saying this is much easier than actually 'doing' it. Plus, to do this we need a way to redirect the game to access a folder instead of the CPK files, think CPKRedir for Sonic Generations. |
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mugenattack
Kaioken
Addicted to another game.
Posts: 160 
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Post by mugenattack on Jun 30, 2015 13:54:07 GMT
actually, its much easier then you think. force the mod manager to run the cpk decrypter and cpk encryptor somehow. once a cpk file is decrypted it puts the files in then waits for copying to be done and them encrypts the cpk file back. as for the content a mod manager can handle this would be good for characters and other easily replaceable stuff relating to just file replacement. the other stuff it won't be able to handle as much.
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Post by Rai on Jun 30, 2015 15:12:46 GMT
Actually it's not easier than I think. You still have to make it choose the mods you want, then move them over to an existing uncompressed cpk folder, then repack that folder, and then move the resulting cpk into your game folder. And that's not getting into the entire list of "wants" in his opening post.
Either way, the user would 'still' have to do work to get the mod manager to run, unless, like I said, make a redirection DLL similar to CPKRedir from Sonic Generations.
And again, all you're doing is saying. Do it, then you can say it's "much easier".
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Post by Komodo on Jun 30, 2015 21:22:18 GMT
>conflict detection
wait so if you install two full replacer mods it won't work?
because you know you can't run two message edits at once right?
you gotta merge 'em
with science
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Post by The Mad Titan on Jul 1, 2015 1:57:00 GMT
I detect a conflict . here in this post
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Post by sbseed on Jul 1, 2015 15:29:09 GMT
i never said it would be easy to create a mod manager, i would hope this would be a better form of mod management than the crap skyrim has...
namco/bandai are not likely to release any mod tools of any kind, yet people have already started modding meshes/textures and scripting/stats.
this would make it easier to mod the game itself by providing a central point to access/edit files...
it is possible to even inject script extension to allow/force the game to look for extra files instead of just replacing files (which is what is currently being done)...
this could also be done by reverse engineering the game itself, that would be a pain in the ass and take a very long period of time... the for this game (since it is unlikely to get a modkit) the gamers/modders have all the time they need.
this is unnecessary as is proven already by the current texture/model modding.
the key for this would be the extending script/code calling outside of the game itself... this can be accomplished by adding script to packed files as well as ini (environment) files.
it is likely that like most games this one uses a series of XML files to control most of the start/load portions of the game itself.
it is also likely that these file types have been renamed to be harder to access outside of the game environment, again requiring the addition to scripts in ini files.
now if someone can figure out what files make the call to load or preload assets, then we can try to convert the file into a usable format or at least try to view the code/script to allow us to create a base script to work from for the mod manager and mods in general.
while it might not be easy this isn't exactly rocket science, and keeping all the tools as well as the manager in one external program is much easier than trying to fiddle with 3-6 different programs like skyrim does...
part of the idea of the mod manager/mod tool, would be see encryption and edit on the fly (decrypting in program only) making it and any mods created with it far more reliable.
this would also allow on the fly error reporting with syntax whether it was code and script, or XML and script.
edit:
also, in my opinion, this game is not currently worth the current asking price(s) and has almost 0 replay value.
the games lifespan would be extended indefinitely with a proper mod manager and more freedom to play the game as weird or as close to the series its based on as possible.
instead we get something that is plausible but has some serious gaping holes in canon to the series, in regards to 'what really happened', and even more with how the power/transform skills don't work, personally this bugs the hell out of me because i want to see my custom character progress and transform/power up logically in the same way done is the series instead of just going from norma to ssj4 or whatever.
not enough attention to detail was paid to progression at all really, altho some of it makes slightly more sense (in accord with the series) than some previous games, but the previous games got more of the rest of it correct.
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Post by Rai on Jul 1, 2015 15:39:45 GMT
You only need two programs for Skyrim though. Nexus Mod Manager, and BOSS.
I don't see how Skyrim's mod management is crap, as far as I'm concerned, it has one of the best mod management systems made by people.
Also, nobody has done actual scripting mods for Xenoverse yet, and as far as I know, that's not possible 'to' do yet.
Also, canon != fun.
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Post by sbseed on Jul 1, 2015 15:45:07 GMT
You only need two programs for Skyrim though. Nexus Mod Manager, and BOSS. I don't see how Skyrim's mod management is crap, as far as I'm concerned, it has one of the best mod management systems made by people. Also, nobody has done actual scripting mods for Xenoverse yet, and as far as I know, that's not possible 'to' do yet. actually you really need 5... TES5edit for save cleaning/crash/and mod sorting, BOSS, Wrye Bash, a mod manager, Script Extender... more if you are using FNIS garbage. (since skyrim and previous beth games were built using their version of the gamebryo the most broken engine, that is still in use, ever) im guessing you dont use more than light mods with your games?!... edit: also, with namco/bandai if they release a modkit or whatever it is likely to end up like what happened with the RAGE toolkit. |
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Post by Rai on Jul 1, 2015 15:51:25 GMT
FNIS is a mod, Script Extender is technically a mod, Wyre Bash and TES5Edit can be excluded if you don't screw around with adding mods and removing mods mid-saves. All you need is NMM and BOSS. Boss can do mod sorting, and you have no need to clean saves when you don't piss around with mods.
What would you consider a "light mod"? And if we want to 'really' go with the whole "most broken engine", that would actually have to go to the engine that Star Wars: The Old Republic and The Elder Scrolls Online both use, because that's far worse.
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Post by sbseed on Jul 1, 2015 16:27:24 GMT
light mods, as in 20 or less...
TESO game engine isn't broken, zenimax/bethesda just failed when they decided to kill the TES series with TESO.
the MMO suffered from bad programming and worse practices.
im also guessing that you have never touched scripting or coding in your life...
FNIS is a separate program used to inject animations into to the game, making even more unstable.
FNIS does not integrate into a mod manager or the game, if it did it wouldn't need to run separately.
in order for script extender to work it has to be run instead of the main game program... it does its own checks and runs its own call procedures making it its own program.
you really should understand the differences between mods, programs, etc.
KoTOR's engine wasn't broken just old, and no mod tools were ever released for the game.
the infinity engine was build for RTS games, at the time its impressive that they even got the engine to play third person games.
bioware was the greatest game company of all time, sadly they died when they allowed EA to gain control.
there has never been a game since KoTOR that could match the storyline.
you should respect the dead a bit more.
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Post by sbseed on Jul 1, 2015 16:30:14 GMT
as to scripting and other modding: dbxvmods.freeforums.net/thread/1600/mios-mod-clothes-stats-soulsmodifying stats is modifying scripts/syntax for the game. syntax being XML related script being base code related (Usually C++) also, hex editing would be considered editing code, since it is the actual game itself you are editing via hex addresses within the game. edit: hex editing: this is much more difficult form of editing items/assets in-game because you can very easily end up editing the wrong address, which has a cascade effect on the entire game. this causes the game to cease function all together, making it a digital version of a paperweight. however, using hex editing as a base it might be possible to find (if there is one) a in-game command console or dev menu (every game has one). i am not sure if anything could be looked at for turning anything 'on' though as some games have those locked via hardcode on final build of the game from the game engine used. hex editor would be very useful in getting a look at coding/call procedures for the game. |
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Post by Rai on Jul 1, 2015 16:55:20 GMT
So, to enjoy mods you have to shove 100+ mods into your games? That's sad, that's really, really sad.
And no, ESO's engine is really shit, and I said Old Republic, not KotOR. ESO and TOR both use the same base engine. By the way, Bethesda had nothing to do with ESO. Zenimax was the one that took control of that one.
Mods can be alternate exes too. Sonic Generations has a mod that uses an alternate EXE. Sonic Adventure has mods that use alternate EXEs, several games use mods that use alternate EXEs. Using different EXEs doesn't mean it's not a mod, you're modifying the game's files, therefore it's a mod. And FNIS is a mod, you use a separate program to generate a CONFIG. You don't use a separate program to load the game for FNIS at all, nor does it run separately.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I do code.
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Post by dpad on Jul 1, 2015 17:00:49 GMT
I think that what he's saying could be done without any horrible, brain-breaking amounts of difficulty by just making a script that automates file directory and packing operations. The thing is that that requires a level of scripting that is outside the scope of what people would be doing with this game, and would probably require a higher level of computer science knowledge than it would take to mod the game.
That's not to say it couldn't be easy; it most likely is, but I doubt that it would be for anyone here, because it's an entirely different kind of scripting and modification.
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